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It's been 4 years. Does anyone else in and around this time frame from Dday still have almost daily thoughts about the A. Our R is progressing and I do think we'll be successful (whatever that word means in the BS world) but I'm still dealing with daily thoughts that fill any downtime I have. When I'm busy, I'm usually fine but we all know we have and need downtime and my mind can't handle that right now. I do see an IC and have spent the first two sessions focused on the background of my situation and working through some basics but I'm curious if any of you who might be further along or may have found a way to deal with this have any insight? My WW recognizes my mood changes but responding with "Nothings wrong, I made the mistake of not being busy and started thinking about the affair." doesn't seem productive. Read this book on how to worry less and it was based on stoicism. Basic foundation is you can control 3 things: Your character (and virtues associated with that), your actions/reactions and how you treat others. Our WS, basically created a dumpster fire of all 3 and us B get to deal with it. I'm 4 years out and I'm still in this paradox of pain and a hopeful recovery.

Yup. Same. DDay 1 was Dec 2021. TT over the next 6 mos into the summer/fall resulting in at least two more Ddays. Came close to filing for divorce 2x. Backed off. In a kinda "R" since then. She did some of the basic stuff, but then I quit pressing for things like her getting counseling and we just sort of settled into the stereotypical POLF. Made a kinda peace with the situation for myself and staying (for wrong reasons I know... kids and financial). It's not that I don't love her, just not in the same way and probably never will again. I also have more or less accepted I will never learn the full truth, unless she has some kind of epiphany. Like you, if I keep busy with work and other activities, the A rents no space in my mind at all. It's the down times when my thoughts get occupied with it (a bit every day still). Not as intense, but it's always there like the pain of a bad knee if my thoughts turn to it. Have one adult child (out of the house) and the other will graduate HS in a couple years. I'm about 85% convinced I will pull the D trigger then if we're still in this POLF situation and/or she's not done any more than she has so far. And I've heard it all... "why wait... you deserve better..." etc. I get it, but I'm ok with my situation. Sorry, didn't mean to thread-jack, but wanted to let you know a lot of us in very similar situations.

Thanks. You're virtually identical to me except we might be in a little better spot R-wise which just speaks to the damage done by this. We're doing better but I'm still crushed. You read some of the "fantasy land" support sites and they talk about self-care (excercise, yoga, mindfulness..not sure what that means still) but none of it keeps me busy enough to prevent downtime and that's when it starts. I saw someone on another thread who bats the feelings away by distracting themselves. They do it by thinking about the steps to making a salad....(no disrespect if that works for you) but sad state of affairs if my coping mechanism has to be thinking thru the steps of making tiramisu to distract myself (that made me chuckle so there's a win for today )

[This message edited by Bos491233 at 4:28 PM, Thursday, June 12th]

I’m 6 years out. For me, it has come down to making a conscious effort not to think about it. Intrusive thoughts will still pop up for me, but the more I make an effort not to think about it, the less I think about it.

Not having enough to do, being tired, bored, etc….will get me thinking about it. It will still cross my mind maybe once a day. Occasionally, I’m happily surprised and have a few days where it doesn’t cross my mind at all.

The Stoics helped me a lot.

Pre-dday I thought I had mindfulness figured out, but the trauma of it all cut through any philosophical or meditative safe spaces.

Time did help me, and when I told myself 10,000 times that I can’t a thing about the past, I can only do something about the now, or today, I eventually understood it.

I always understood I couldn’t control anyone — having kids will teach that lesson in a week.

My favorite application of my healing was, as you noted, I can only control my response to adversity.

So I started to control my response. If I get a trigger, or reminder or flashback to the A era, I figure out why or where that is coming from and then I feel what I need to about it (be it anger, sadness, etc.), process it and then own it. Basically, it is a, "Yes, bad shit happened in the past, but it ain’t happening now."

Then I appreciate what is going well. I focus on the truth that I am a badass who conquered grief, I am an honorable guy who gave his wife a last chance to do good and be good.

Actually, I think year four was decent for me, but the triggers/thoughts were still invasive more often than I wanted.

Year five was when I felt good about how I was attacking those thoughts, and my wife’s work was consistent enough that I turned the corner on the constant pain of it all.

These days, the only time I really think about the A is responding here at SI. And I know I will get reminders here, but I still find it important to pay it forward, best I can when I can to try and share my experiences here that on occasion, can help someone else.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 5:03 PM, Thursday, June 12th]

Oldwounds - Do you have any suggestions in the way of books, podcasts, etc. of the Stoicism you studied?

Thank you in advance.

Reasons Not to Worry by Brigid Delaney

Oldwounds - Do you have any suggestions in the way of books, podcasts, etc. of the Stoicism you studied?

Old Romans and Greeks don’t necessarily translate well to the modern world, the source books can be a little dry, unless you love reading philosophy in general. That said, the primary sources that a lot of modern stoics start with are the ‘big three’:

Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
Letters from a Stoic by Seneca
Epictetus' Discourses and Enchiridion

A key modern stoic, I follow some on social media, Ryan Holiday.

He has a couple books out as well:

The Obstacle Is the Way by Ryan Holiday
The Daily Stoic by Ryan Holiday and Stephen Hanselman.

Ryan sometimes focuses more on the bullet points/bumper sticker kind of stuff, but he does a good job translating the old concepts and how they apply to the current day.

I find most of it is common sense stuff, but we all lose focus sometimes, and this approach of not sweating the small stuff is a good reminder, IMHO.

I’ll be following this thread. I’m six months out from D Day (WW, 4 month PA with her work superior, AP committed major property damage after WW ended it on D Day, AP later killed himself).
I’m not as far removed from all of the stuff as you are, so things may change with time for me.
I’ve noticed that while the thoughts are ALWAYS there, the effect they have on me tends to vary. Sometimes, I can sort of quietly acknowledge "hey that sucked but it’s better now". Other times it’s all I can do not to be on the floor from the pain. Down time triggers the thoughts more, but I’m not really sure what they hit differently sometimes.

I hear what you’re saying about not knowing how to respond when she asks if you’re ok. I have the same issue. I hate sounding like a broken record admitting I still hurt from her cheating. That being said, I think it’s better to acknowledge it than force it down. But I’m all ears if anyone has suggestions on how to respond when you get the "are you ok" question.

That being said, I think it’s better to acknowledge it than force it down. But I’m all ears if anyone has suggestions on how to respond when you get the "are you ok" question.

I think we all heal different.

For me, if I was going to stay, the old days of walking on eggshells was over.

I get to be me, 24/7, no masks, no roles, no games, no bullshit.

That said, I wasn’t ever going to weaponize my pain — but if I was hurting, I told her I was hurting.

If you’re trying to keep the peace, you can lead in with, "hey, I appreciate your recent efforts — and also — I have all of these horrible images in my head on a loop."

I had to be honest and I had to process every bit of my pain, sadness and all out anger of it all. It takes time. Give yourself lots of room for those one step forward, three steps back types of days.

It is so hard isn't it? Those intrusive thoughts try to rob us of our happiness and its so frustrating. You are having a good day and bam. I do not know where you are spiritually or if you have a faith, but I heard something from a podcast or a minister once and it truly helped me during those times that you are going through now. To win the battle in your mind you need to free your mind from destructive thoughts by choosing to shift channels and focus your mind on the right things. So when things happen today-- 1.Think about Jesus. 2.Think about others. and 3.Think about eternity. No matter what helps you, be so proud of yourself that you are sticking through and figuring it out. Hope things continue to improve. God Bless.

I am at 3 years and can cope with triggers now but am still not in a great place.

Funnily I need regular silence. I had a very. busy weekend and was craving solitude at one point.

Love yourself like your life depends on it by Ravikant has exercises you can do and you can do them anywhere. It’s not specifically about betrayal but it could easily be done when you have a thought. Plus although they may seem strange exercises they worked for me - so distracting and useful!

[This message edited by Abcd89 at 9:25 AM, Monday, June 16th]

Yeah, conincidentally happened last night as we were out and a couple caught my eye where the guy was over the top with his PDA. One of the reasons my wife gave for the affair was my distant personality at the time and lack of affection. Seeing this guy triggered what I'd call a what I'd call a mini-panic attack. My wife, working hard as she has been, recognized something was going on but being in a public place I didn't want to share it as I knew she'd become emotional and it would ruin the night. By the time we got home it had passed and I'd moved on to enjoy the evening as best I could. I guess the lesson is: This sucks, we didn't ask for it, there's no real solution only band aids. You just push through/cope as best you can and hope time helps.

I guess the lesson is: This sucks, we didn't ask for it, there's no real solution only band aids.

I think you're missing the solution. For example, Oldwounds said:

I had to be honest and I had to process every bit of my pain, sadness and all out anger of it all. It takes time. Give yourself lots of room for those one step forward, three steps back types of days.

The key is 'process every bit of my pain, sadness and all out anger of it all.' A BS needs to feel the pain to get rid of it. It's active, not passive. It's not band aids.

I don't know that you're NOT addressing your pain head on. I'm writing because I think understanding Oldwounds's point is critical.

It’ll be 3 years in November for me and I still have a lot of triggers so you’re not alone. I was trying to describe how my day was hijacked yesterday my husband just acted so puzzled. It’s exhausting trying to make your partner understand the exhaustion and pain of what they did.

I read the book recently called Forgiving What You’ll Never Forget and I found it helpful. It differentiated between forgiveness and reconciliation in a way I hadn’t thought about before.

It gave the example of someone owing you a million dollars that they will never, ever be able to repay. They are constantly giving you small payments and you are constantly working out the logistics of a repayment system that you know will never logically happen anyway. So, in the end, you just say look I forgive your debt for my own sake because this isn’t worth all my energy. That example worked for me.

And … why is infidelity like a million dollar debt that can never be repaid? Because the BS carries around these exhausting land mines in their head and they take up space that should be filled with joy. And, even though the unfaithful spouse may carry guilt or shame, it just isn’t the same and it never will be. They owe you a debt that can never be repaid.

I know that sounded dark (sorry) but I do recommend the book because it goes on the talk about how reconciliation is different than forgiveness. And I think reconciliation is where the triggers and how you deal with them together enter the picture. My spouse and I are not yet successful in this regard.

All the best to you!

I'm years out and still those thoughts creep in on a very regular basis. What has changed is my ability to kick them to the curb most times. That took years of hard work, tears and practice.

Give yourself lots of room for those one step forward, three steps back types of days.

Oldwounds nailed it with this.

The key is 'process every bit of my pain, sadness and all out anger of it all.' A BS needs to feel the pain to get rid of it. It's active, not passive. It's not band aids.

Oldwounds and Sisoon with this also is spot on.

This was a hard one in my healing journey - but one of the most beneficial parts.

Like Chaos, I, too, agree with Old Wounds and Sisoon.

The only way I was able to heal from infidelity and even grow into a stronger, more grounded version of myself - was by facing the emotional triggers head-on instead of avoiding them. Triggers are our body’s alarm system. They signal, "This feeling has been here before - and it hurt." They don’t just reflect the current moment; they pull in echoes of past pain, compounding it. The only way to find peace is to move through those emotions with curiosity and compassion, rather than pushing them away.

For me, that meant learning to listen deeply to what my emotions were trying to communicate. I couldn’t have done that without the help of a therapist - someone to teach me the skills I needed to support myself through those intense moments.

Each time I moved through a trigger, it loosened its grip. I gained more emotional awareness, self-understanding, and healing. There’s a huge difference between knowing something logically and truly knowing it emotionally. I had to learn to show up for myself in those moments - that’s what allowed the healing to happen.

Now, when I feel a big emotion rising in me, I see it as an opportunity - not a threat. I pause. I allow space for the emotion. I do deep breathing, I journal, cry if I need to, and ask myself: What’s really being stirred up here? Have I felt this before? Is there a memory surfacing? What does that part of me need right now? Sometimes it’s self-compassion. Sometimes it’s inner reparenting - caring for a younger version of me still carrying unmet needs.

I make sure to bring these moments to therapy so I can keep building the emotional tools I need to move through life with more peace, presence, and self-trust. The goal is to listen and to show up for myself.

Also, you said,

"One of the reasons my wife gave for the affair was my distant personality at the time and lack of affection."

This is blaming and is not why she had an affair. She is the reason she had an affair, full stop. She needs to own that and look into her why’s that have nothing to do with you.

[This message edited by maise at 11:33 AM, Tuesday, June 17th]

All:

Thanks for the caring responses. I guess the one thing I struggle with is many times these triggers happen in public, uncomfortable places to take these on so what have you all done to manage that aspect. I:
a) Don't want to ruin what could be a good night that's moving us towards recovery by having to leave or having a moment to work through it as you all describe. I am going thru IC to deal with this exact issue but it's only been two sessions
b) Am not at all taking the blame but I'm not in the camp that believes all affairs are just done maliciously. Yes the decision is a horrible, malicious act against someone you supposedly love so deeply and in the case of marriage, took vows. HOWEVER, BS's that do this for emotional reasons or at least think they do (like my BS) do have to work through that and in my case she hasn't blamed me at all. She explained what was going on in her head at the time and has owned that entire decision, period.

Unfortunately, I think in my head, her sharing that has created a trigger that involves PDA (odd how these things manifest themselves). I was traveling about 60% of the time, we had 4 young kids so I was running constantly and I was struggling with undiagnosed epilepsy (a minor version, not the major seizures many think of). I honestly have no idea how she had time but I guess if you want to make time, you'll find it. The dumb, heat of the moment decision, that's changed the course of our lives was all tied to her perception or unwillingness to deal with that period of our lives and the sacrifices associated with it. Again, she's owned that which is why we're even trying this and successfully so far.

It's just a strange spot in the healing process. I feel like she thinks we're doing better but knows when I'm internalizing things that may bother me with the constant "What's wrong". She, deep down, knows I've been triggered by something but I do think in an ironic case of unfairness, for both of us I need to share these things head on. Many of you have mentioned this and I need to own this part for this to work. I guess that's the answer.

BUT, specifically again, what do you all do if you're out at dinner, movie, whatever and these happen. If I bring it up it's instant tears (legit, not crocodile) so it's tough to navigate these instances. Thanks again all. These are really helpful!

Don't want to ruin what could be a good night that's moving us towards recovery by having to leave or having a moment to work through it as you all describe.

I'll suggest that you take the immediate hit in favor of longer term gains.

Maybe something like, 'I'm triggering. Let's get out of here as soon as possible.' Sometime you may have to leave just for and with yourself, if it's too awkward for both of you to leave together. (Of course, sometimes you have to get through a trigger on grit alone. I don't know what constraints you're under when you trigger, so those are just possible responses.)

Again, read what Oldwounds said. I think this is the crux:

For me, if I was going to stay, the old days of walking on eggshells was over.
I get to be me, 24/7, no masks, no roles, no games, no bullshit.
That said, I wasn’t ever going to weaponize my pain — but if I was hurting, I told her I was hurting.

Avoidance is the enemy of healing, and you can't R without healing. Luckily, there are many ways to resolve an issue without avoiding it.

To the first concern you listed, concern "a".

Something that’s helped me reframe this fear is recognizing that moving through triggers—whether related to infidelity or past trauma—is actually part of the healing process, not a disruption of it. These moments, while uncomfortable, teach me about myself and allow for growth.

I’m currently in a new relationship, not with the partner I experienced infidelity with, so the dynamic is different. But when infidelity-related triggers do come up, I let my partner know what I’m feeling—not to make it his responsibility, but because it helps him understand where I’m at. I also make it clear that it’s not about him, but something I’m still working through.

For example, this happened at a concert once. I felt a trigger rise up, and instead of reacting outwardly, I acknowledged it to myself and committed to revisiting it later when I had space. My boyfriend noticed something was off, and when we got home—where I felt more grounded—he gently brought it up, which allowed for a supportive conversation.

When I recognize a trigger, I start by noticing the intensity of the emotion—it feels disproportionate, which usually signals it’s a trigger. I try to think through what it might be connected to, then promise myself I’ll process it more deeply when I’m alone. If it’s too overwhelming, I step away briefly to regulate—whether through a short walk, quiet space, or grounding technique. I also make sure to bring it to therapy that week so I can unpack it more fully.

Unfortunately, even when the trigger is tied directly to infidelity, the responsibility to heal still lies with us, the betrayed. If we choose to reconcile with the partner who hurt us, part of that journey involves them becoming a safer, more accountable presence in our healing—but the emotional processing and deeper work still has to come from within. No one else can do that part for us.

b) Am not at all taking the blame but I'm not in the camp that believes all affairs are just done maliciously. Yes the decision is a horrible, malicious act against someone you supposedly love so deeply and in the case of marriage, took vows. HOWEVER, BS's that do this for emotional reasons or at least think they do (like my BS) do have to work through that and in my case she hasn't blamed me at all. She explained what was going on in her head at the time and has owned that entire decision, period.

To your concern above, I actually don’t believe my ex-wayward spouse (XWS) had the affair out of malice. I don’t think it was done with the intention of hurting me. Instead, it stemmed from unresolved issues within themselves—things they needed to confront and heal that had nothing to do with me. For them, it seemed more about seeking external validation, ego boosts, and a temporary sense of worth. None of those needs justified the betrayal, of course, but I don’t see it as an act rooted in hatred or intentional cruelty. It was a reflection of their own internal struggles, not a statement about my value or our relationship.

[This message edited by maise at 4:14 PM, Tuesday, June 17th]